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 Good Scrimmage practice but frustrating

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Yarbles
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PostSubject: Good Scrimmage practice but frustrating   Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:26 pm

I had a great time yesterday and hope we can do this regularly on Tuesday night. I am going to try for about 4PM est on tuesday that 9 Pm out time Zak.

But: As usual a couple of people I.e. Kvuo and Klingan seem to get about half the kills between them. I still struggle to get 1 kill every other round. I take nothing away from Kvuo and Kling but really as a squad we should be learning from our best if we can and they teaching us IF that means we can improve as a squad.

My shortcoming in the scrimmage was definatley still focusing too much on the plane infront and not the one behind clown

One day I hope we will be good enough to challenge "The Few" again.
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Klingan
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PostSubject: Re: Good Scrimmage practice but frustrating   Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:10 pm

I just like the fact that i could be on a 3 vs 1 and win Shocked
And a 4 vs 1 and kill 3 of them before i got shot down.

Sure I didn't "shoot" them down (they augered), but i count it anyway Twisted Evil
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Yarbles
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PostSubject: Re: Good Scrimmage practice but frustrating   Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:41 pm

Klingan wrote:
I just like the fact that i could be on a 3 vs 1 and win Shocked
And a 4 vs 1 and kill 3 of them before i got shot down.

Sure I didn't "shoot" them down (they augered), but i count it anyway Twisted Evil

What do you think makes you and a cuple of others so much better at this sort of thing than the rest of the squad??

I think it would be really usefull to know.
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Klingan
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PostSubject: Re: Good Scrimmage practice but frustrating   Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:55 pm

SA and a big portion of luck?
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Yarbles
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PostSubject: Re: Good Scrimmage practice but frustrating   Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:20 pm

Klingan wrote:
SA and a big portion of luck?

1) Is there anywhere in particular you like to be after the first merge? obviously as an intermediate position beofre you are under 300 on their six.
2) When do you think is the best point to turn eg level with the ememy or just before?
3) How do you get a plane of identical performance off your 6 without blowing too much E.
4) The immelman type reverse after the merge is suupposed to be most energy efficient do you usually go for that?
5) As a team I noticed the tail ender was first to be set upon and we fared best if we hit our opponents in a tight group. Otherwise our tailende got killed early and we faced a numerical dissadvantage almost emmeditely. Do you agree.

I think all of this helps in the MA also. I am inching my way toward a 2/1 KD in the main arena and a long as I am making progrees I dont get bored.
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Klingan
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PostSubject: Re: Good Scrimmage practice but frustrating   Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:10 pm

Yarbles wrote:
Klingan wrote:
SA and a big portion of luck?

1) Is there anywhere in particular you like to be after the first merge? obviously as an intermediate position beofre you are under 300 on their six.
Above them and behind them
2) When do you think is the best point to turn eg level with the ememy or just before?
Depends on tactics. If I am agressive i turn just before the merge. If i am defensive i do a slow climb after merge while watching the opponent making his first move, and then i decide what to do.
3) How do you get a plane of identical performance off your 6 without blowing too much E.
I usually don't Embarassed The trick is to not let them get there in the first place. Otherwise learning how to stallfight is a good alternative.
4) The immelman type reverse after the merge is suupposed to be most energy efficient do you usually go for that?
I never (or i should say i try not to) do a flat turn after a merge. I usually do a what i think is a High Yoyo (not sure). I climb while making a slow turn. That makes me (hopefully) be above the enemy, and i have the option to dive in and attack or level out and look for a better opportunity.
5) As a team I noticed the tail ender was first to be set upon and we fared best if we hit our opponents in a tight group. Otherwise our tailende got killed early and we faced a numerical dissadvantage almost emmeditely. Do you agree.
Well i think it mostly has to do with our merges that is not totally correct. The question is when has the merge accured? Is it when both groups flewn past eachother? If that is the case I still haven't seen this in our scrimmage. Usually half the guys merge and the tailenders get shoot at without having a propper merge. So the tighter the group, the quicker is the merge.
I think all of this helps in the MA also. I am inching my way toward a 2/1 KD in the main arena and a long as I am making progrees I dont get bored.
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Yarbles
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PostSubject: Re: Good Scrimmage practice but frustrating   Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:27 pm

Thanks for taking the time to explain.

I know you also: like to get in close on the enemies six but also take snap shots, Look around you all the time when in the battle, have good discipline in the MA when it comes to keeping E through height and like everyone else struggle with your deflection shots.

I hope allot of people read this and study it
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Klingan
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PostSubject: Re: Good Scrimmage practice but frustrating   Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:36 pm

Yarbles wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to explain.

I know you also: like to get in close on the enemies six but also take snap shots, Look around you all the time when in the battle, have good discipline in the MA when it comes to keeping E through height and like everyone else struggle with your deflection shots.

I hope allot of people read this and study it

Well the shooting part of the game is something i still need to work on.

Read The Damn Thread
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Yarbles
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PostSubject: Re: Good Scrimmage practice but frustrating   Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:50 pm

You should get allot of practice on Tuesday as:

I Declare Tuesday night 4pm EST onward (9pm Uk) scrimmage night cheers cheers cheers

For whoever wants to join in (followed possibly by me picking peoples brains on here the next day)

Slower and less well armed planes give people a chance to work on and grasp moves and are often good choines.

SBD
TBM
HURRI 1
SPIT 1
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Curnutte
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PostSubject: Scrimmage is fun   Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:01 pm

I get about 1 kill per round but I always let my 6 open if I trance too much . other than that I'm learning lots. I enjoy the company we keep doing it .
Nutte king
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Yarbles
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PostSubject: Re: Good Scrimmage practice but frustrating   Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:37 pm

Curnutte wrote:
I get about 1 kill per round but I always let my 6 open if I trance too much . other than that I'm learning lots. I enjoy the company we keep doing it .
Nutte king

Ok and at the risk of raising another Sheet storm affraid

If you went after the fighter medal i.e. got to 1/1 KD in fighters within the times allowed it would make you sort out your SA (Situational Awareness).

It sounds like you have good skills except in this area.
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PostSubject: Re: Good Scrimmage practice but frustrating   Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:59 pm

Yarbles wrote:
You should get allot of practice on Tuesday as:

Slower and less well armed planes give people a chance to work on and grasp moves and are often good choines.

SBD
TBM
HURRI 1
SPIT 1

SBD is a slow plane, but one of the best turners in the game. I have been using it primarily this and some of last tour, and it has some good/bad points.

Good:
-Turning, can turn with a Hurricane 2C using flaps.
-Guns, not the strongest, but has enough punch and ammo to down 5 or so planes.
-Very low stall speed, It can hover at almost 60-70mph in a turn and hold its nose up.
-Great handling with damage, even with 1/2 wing it fly normal with 1 notch of flaps.

Bad:
-Speed, Maxes out around 250mph if it ever gets that high.
-Very weak armor, a few pings to the tail and it is gone.
-Climbing, Due to low speeds and low HP it cannot hold a climb long, Do not go with the enemy in a rope unless they are low on E.


Overall it is a good plane, for someone attempting to get use to turning and slow fights it's quite good. It can be done to turn with a Zeke, however you need to get the fight over quick, it only holds in for about 2 or 3 turns.

Course that and the B-25 are the only planes I have any knowledge on.
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Yarbles
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PostSubject: Re: Good Scrimmage practice but frustrating   Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:25 pm

[quote="Xcelsior"]
Yarbles wrote:
You should get allot of practice on Tuesday as:

Course that and the B-25 are the only planes I have any knowledge on.

Well we thank you for sharing what you have Wink

and dont be so self effacing you know the 38 and many others.

Do you think you will get another squad up and running if you havent already? and you are welcome on 144 at any time and to join any of our events I love you the next is scrimmage tuesday practice from 4pm EST.

Dont forget though Iam the Guvvner lol! in it rabbit
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marcds
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PostSubject: Re: Good Scrimmage practice but frustrating   Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:18 am

I notice that I to keep focusing too much on the plane in front of me and letting my six open for lead ennima.
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Yarbles
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PostSubject: Re: Good Scrimmage practice but frustrating   Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:04 pm

marcds wrote:
I notice that I to keep focusing too much on the plane in front of me and letting my six open for lead ennima.

I resalise this can be inflamatory but here goes anyway. Its not aimed at anyone in particular.

I am striving to get 2/1 KD within the time frame so I can get the next Real Plastic Medal "Fighter Ace Bronze" Coolness

Every time you get killed you have to kill 2 more people to catch up. After a while you start becoming more aware of what is going on around you and looking further out especially behind. WHY??:

Because your life is quatifiably worth twice as much as the person you are trying to kill. Getting killed by the guy on your six just after you killed the one infront of you, you are down 1 kill

I dont think the majority of people will move to the next level without a goal.

Situational awareness is inference form a series of snapshots:

"That 109 is 5K out heading which way. As I close on the Yak how much ground can that 109 have made up by now"

"I just got the 38 now I am on the LA but I cant see where the 51 went. I expect hes after somone else (WRONG) hes just under my 6 and now I am dead"

At present I can just about track 3 cons at once including the one I am after, it used to just be the one in front of me. Kvuo is clearly more skilled than me in the game whatever he says but when I fight him one on one close in I really dont see that much in it. Being a good shot, excellent at ACM'S etc will get you only so far. If you throw yourself into the middle of furballs all the time you wont learn Situational Awareness. If you want to develop in fighter skills go after one of the medals as it will give you a reason to change what you are already doing into something more effective.

Q. "How do you get a plane of identical performance off your 6 without blowing too much E.
A. I usually don't The trick is to not let them get there in the first place".
(Klingan see earlier)

I wish the people who really know would say a bit more about this more often and help the rest of us. What I learn I share Cool Take it or Leave it.
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Klingan
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PostSubject: Re: Good Scrimmage practice but frustrating   Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:08 pm

My problem (or rather one of many) is that i suck at teaching. If I get a question ill try to answer it the best i can. But i don't go and look for questions.
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PostSubject: Re: Good Scrimmage practice but frustrating   Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:31 pm

Yarbs, if someone is having troubles with SA, get a furball going; after that get one target (Let's say Marc in a 109) to be the one you want to kill. Go after him, making sure the rest of the furball knows of you and on occasion make a fake-pass on you, then have another target (Kling in a SpitV) and target him --TAB--, but continue working on Marc. Have Kling make several attempts to kill you, never firing for safeties sake, and work on avoiding him while keeping on Marcs 6. It requires you to look around and keep a track on the Locked Spit, while also chasing Marc.

It is not a perfect plan, but it has helped with SA for me.

After time you will learn to check around for cons (like the SpitV) while also keeping on the 6 of your target. It will also teach you how fast a Con can close on you, and when optimal avoidance time is. Once I get 'Spin' back up to his previous game state he may be able to help some. He may not want to admit it, but he has excellent SA, and avoidance procedures for most cases.


Last edited by Xcelsior on Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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Yarbles
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PostSubject: Re: Good Scrimmage practice but frustrating   Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:03 pm

Will you and Spin come to the Da especially tuesday around 4pm EST for scrimmage practice or any time. I like the competitive tournament and if the sides are reasonably balanced you get through allot of fights in a short time. Setting up specific scenarios may be harder to organsie but I am willing to give it a go. Coolness
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PostSubject: Re: Good Scrimmage practice but frustrating   Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:21 pm

Kling, I'm pretty sure that is a high yoyo

Yarb, as klingan said the BEST way to get someone off your six is to not let the get there in the first place, the second option is gravity and throttle...if someone is on your six you absolutely MUST force an overshoot so you can get your guns to solution...in order to do this, you want to do a barrel roll...best option, it involved chopping a bit of throttle, WEP climbing up and over...when you are at the top of your climb, you chop throttle and rpm then drop behind the opponent, if you did this perfectly, you get a guns solution and you kill him...if not, you will probably have to do it again...especially if he has more e, but you have given yourself time to climb a bit and gain e...it's all about burning the opponent's E, at all times, I don't think, ok how can I get more e than him, i think...ok how can I get this guy to do something stupid and put me above him

if you want we can go to the DA next time we're both on and I'll show you a few things...also ask floats, he is wonderful at teaching these sorts of things...it is much easier for me to show you, than to explain it...but hopefully you get the gist
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Yarbles
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PostSubject: Re: Good Scrimmage practice but frustrating   Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:10 pm

Mobius wrote:
Kling, I'm pretty sure that is a high yoyo

if you want we can go to the DA next time we're both on and I'll show you a few things...also ask floats, he is wonderful at teaching these sorts of things...it is much easier for me to show you, than to explain it...but hopefully you get the gist

Yeah now you mention it i can remember seeing people do it to me. Definatley would like you to teach me and help me practice this with you if you have time and thanks bounce cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Good Scrimmage practice but frustrating   Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:52 am

Yarbles wrote:
Will you and Spin come to the DA especially Tuesday around 4pm EST for scrimmage practice or any time. I like the competitive tournament and if the sides are reasonably balanced you get through allot of fights in a short time. Setting up specific scenarios may be harder to organize but I am willing to give it a go. Coolness

Name the time and I will attempt to get us there. As I recall this Sunday Spin has off work, and I am free, if you wanted to try to practice then I will try and get there. bounce

Just remember, we have barely played for the past 2 months or so, will take a little bit of warming up.

Whoever can make it would make it fun, been a while since I fought you Ur an Asshole s.
Now prepare to have a Zeke BBQ. Shocked
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Klingan
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PostSubject: Re: Good Scrimmage practice but frustrating   Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:41 am

cheers Zeke BBQ cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Good Scrimmage practice but frustrating   Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:31 pm

WT Fuck. I only worry about my six when Klingans around. The others


NOT EVEN!!!! Ur an Asshole
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Yarbles
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PostSubject: Re: Good Scrimmage practice but frustrating   Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:47 pm

Xcelsior wrote:
Yarbles wrote:
Will you and Spin come to the DA especially Tuesday around 4pm EST for scrimmage practice or any time. I like the competitive tournament and if the sides are reasonably balanced you get through allot of fights in a short time. Setting up specific scenarios may be harder to organize but I am willing to give it a go. Coolness

Name the time and I will attempt to get us there. As I recall this Sunday Spin has off work, and I am free, if you wanted to try to practice then I will try and get there. bounce

Just remember, we have barely played for the past 2 months or so, will take a little bit of warming up.

Whoever can make it would make it fun, been a while since I fought you Ur an Asshole s.
Now prepare to have a Zeke BBQ. Shocked

Ok can you take us on Tuesday around 5 pm EST. Couldnt make Sunday. Co vs Co so to speak you get Spin and alternate picks for any precision who turn up and are willing to be auctioned. Could/should be fun. I think we could try and Barbecue your Zeke's and you can try and spit roast our spits Embarassed Embarassed

lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Good Scrimmage practice but frustrating   Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:06 am

We shall attempt to be there, it all depends on Spin. He managed to fry his Motherboard Thursday while replacing a part, and it should arrive either Monday or Tuesday. There is only a very slim chance we won't make it, as Newegg has very fast shipping. bounce

Nope not lying about this to get out of getting our asses handed to us. lol!
"[quote author=AirFlyer link=action=profile;u=14066 date=1229131418]
Won't see me around for a bit, managed to fry my motherboard(I think/hope). Getting a replacement but it prolly won't be here till Monday. . ."
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