Meeting Minutes 27/07/2008

The meeting was held in the TA as usual on 144 at 2 pm EST.

Those present I think were.

kvuo
Nutte
Chungo
8318
Walrus
Saffron
Milton
Zack1234
Floatsup
Klingan
Voids
Xcelsior (Not Sure)
Reiner
Ean

(Iam not abosolutely sure as I lost my notes like an idiot)

Vuo asked if anyone had anything to say and Floats went straight into:

He had been ill and it would take him some time to recover

There is not enough organisation in the ma of the working together and missions type

That people werent bombing anymore or not enough

Floats felt that allot of the time when he had been on people were not working together. He suggested we should be working together more but allowed that:

1) Sometimes people would be off doing their own thing.
2) We didnt want to keep running back to back missions.
3) That people generally and including him didnt want to bomb so much.

There then followed allot of coment from different people about:

The advantages and dissadvantages of missions over less formal squad only sorties.

How many bombers were needed in a mission.

Whether we should fly more fighter sweeps as there is allot of interest in fighters and fighter tactics.

Zack pointed out since joining he had only been on one bomber mission and no fighter sweeps.

I think it was concluded

1) Bomber missions were not particularly desirable in isolation as there was no follow up in base taking.

2)Bombers were best used as part of combined missions needing no more that 2 or 3 flights.

3)We continue to be commited to base taking but may include fighter sweeps in future.

My observation would be that we have a difference in style between Vuo and Floats in terms of leadership. Vuo tends not to want to post large public missions. He goes after targets and others have the option to join in or not. Floats posts more specific defined targets and roles and commands often greater numbers especially on public missions.

My Comments

I think Vuo's style suits those who have been playing longer, are positioned in the squad and understand the game well. The Floats style is easier to get on board with if you are new to the squad or more inexperienced but does not leave so much room for individual initiative.

Either way I think where there are squad members on the channel they should be given every opportunity by the "senior officers" to get involved in what is going on. They could be offered primary or secondary / diversionary targets but should be given the opportunity to get involved without felling coerced.

I would reccomend that when someone wants to be on channel but is doing something of their own they should show afk so it is obvious who does and doesnt want to be invloled in the main event. The main point raised at the meeting was that there often is no main event going on and I would suggest once we have 5 or more squaddies showing as not afk we should try and work something out together.

I didnt think we really resolved anything in the meeting so I have attempted to feed discussion further here. I think for the squad to remain fun it has to develop and grow or become stale. We all get bored doing the same thing over and over. On the other hand new people which we will always need will have joined looking to get involved in something they can access and understand fairly easily. They will often need direction and explanation.

We used to be about large public missions and cherry picking who was left on channel and we probably still need to do this. We also are evolving into precise better organised action utilising the skills we have developed and the realtionships formed. I think we need to continue with both going forward always keeping an eye out for new people developing, involving and making room for them when they come on board.

I think Floats should continue to post large public missions periodically. I think Vuo along with Klingan are great at interpreting the map, choosing viable targets and working with people like Saffron, Reiner, nutte, marcds etc who are experienced and they know well but they should always be looking to get newer people into the frame. I do think this would be easier if people who want to listen in but dont want to be involved at that time show afk to show they are not available.

Anyway I think we should carry on this discussion on the forumn

OK, here is my thoughts on the subject.

I completly agree with you Yarbs as to the need to get the newer members activily doing something with in the squad and running squad based ops every couple of hours.
Most of our new members WANT to do bombing missions, so why don't we use this to our advantage and set up smaller missions, this gives some of you old farts who can't see through your bombsights as well anymore the chance to fly escort and cap a base. while still being in a mission that will accomplish something other than continuios defence.

For any of the members who would like to sharpen there skills and maybe learn something about bombing that they did not know I would be more than happy to answer any questions and do some training..

There are other squads out there who are running missions all the time and I would love it if we could work with one of them like we used to do with the Lancers. Those where good missions where we all had fun and it really felt like we where doing some thing.

any one have anything they would like to comment on??

i have only 1 thing... if anyone WANTS to do any particular thing at any given time, whether its a big bombing run, fighter sweep, etc. just speak up! I would be happy to set something up, but I'll say right now, I will NOT lead random knights on a mission.. I do not have the patience floats does. Which is why I do not like posting actual missions. We SHOULD all have the ability to "meet at Axx, in a xxx, 500 or 1000 lb bombs, NE rwy"

i may be mistaken but this sense I get that people are worrying about the "direction" the squad is going is bullshit, I think quite frankly... no matter what we're doing we usually having fun, which in the end is my only objective. i could give a shit less about what we used to do, how many bases we take, lose or anything else.

wait that was a few different things.

which reminds me of another. I have to agree with klingan the last few days, we've gotten into a few really shitty situations, completely outnumbered, everythings fucked up. ("im not going back there!") i get sick of getting killed left and right... when it's completely hopeless, we should not bitch at someone for not wanting to go be an easy target.

Hold on there Killer....lol
Vuo I think you are doing a great job and I am not criticizing in any way shape or form.
I just wanted the new members to know that if you guys are working on something and they do not feel comfortable working what ever you guys are doing, I will be more than happy to take them up on a bombing run in support of what you are working on. I guess I did not convey that well enough. That is what I get for checking the forums at work.

Brother I stand behind you 110%. You keep doing what you do and we will be there to follow and help!

Voo is getting hostile.... Man, chill. Go do something..like take 83 to Victoria Secret for shopping.



83 is probably saying.. Fuck you "my2" ... "why is my name included in this?"

Cuz its hard to squeeze anthing out of you.... nvmind... i dont wanna squeeze anything out of you.

Alright lads calm down calm down keep your hair on

I think we are all happy with the way things are going except at least 5 people I have heard say they want more missions. So I am guessing Kling and Vuo dont like posting public missions that much and Floats has been ill and not so involved. If people are on when I am who like missions Ill post at least one a night and maybe Mark can do the same as we barely overlap. What I would like is advice and support with this from those in the know. i.e. if the infrequent mission is crap tell me and if its not please join it.

I think we should all remember that 95% of us were recruited by Floats from Public Missions. I would hate to think we loose good new people like Zack and Chungo because there is nothing for them to do.

if i seemed hostile.. not my intention

LOL. Not at all Mike. I was just picking on you with the whole killer thing. and then I thought I would make sure you knew that I thought you where doing a good job.

See if I ever try and compliment any one again! LOL

Yarbs, Damnit you suck and are doing the worst job EVER!!!!!!!!!LOL

marcds wrote:

Yarbs, Damnit you suck and are doing the worst job EVER!!!!!!!!!LOL

Perhaps I ll just report the facts next time mmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Anyway if people ask for missions ill volunteer to post them

I agree with vou and Yarbles they have raised ie getting killed for no advantage. Missions are not a big issue it might be a better scene not having missions just meet at a base as a squad and shoot the enemy.

I hope i did not give the impression i am happy with mission situation flying with squad members is more important and happens on a regular basis any way.

There is a point Klingan made the after the sqaud meet.

Where did everyone go?

One last point can people understand me when i speak?

i meant to say missions are not that important flying, with squad members is more fun

2 reasons for public missions imho

1) When we dont have enough people to finish something its worth a try.

2) Thats where I think new recruits come from


This is a discussion and if people dont agree I say I am interested in what people have to say

Alright.. I'll chime in a little.....

If it wasn't for posting and running public missions.. I for one would not be here. It was because of flying in the public missions that I got noticed by Floats and was asked to join the squad. I think that is true for the majority of us in this squad.

I for one, like the public missions. It gives some of the "newbs" a chance to show there stuff and / or learn... We all had to.
Yes, it is frustrating to deal with some of the "newbs" who don't know what they're doing, but once again, they have to learn.
It can be a pain to teach, but if they are going to be flying Knights, I want them to be better pilots to cover my ass and hit their targets.
On Saturday prior to the meeting, I was in the TA thinking it was Sunday, and ended up helping out 2 newbs get the basics down. I for one, am not going to be teaching advanced fighter tactics, or even basic.. I don't know any, but if I can help out with basic flight controls great. It gives a nice sense of accomplishment, and I'm sure HTC is happy with the hopes they will stick around after their 2 weeks. Please don't give me any shit for not knowing my days..Too many days out of work.

On the better side... If we can draw in some of the more experienced players, 68's, DM's, etc.. It will increase our chances of obtaining our goal. Hence the "Alliance" missions that are posted every once in a while.
Speaking of missions that are posted from other squads.. I think we should try to join them as much as possible. This will help to obtain their goal, as well as draw more pilots in when we post our missions.

I know it can be stressful to organize and assign targets and rolls to everyone.
Maybe have a member of the squad lead each wing.
ie. Yarbles - flight lead for 17's / Reiner flight lead for P51's / Kling flight lead for 110's.... etc. etc.

I don't think all our missions need to be public.
I even think the majority can stay inter squad with only 25% being public.
I like the idea of " Meet @ Axx / in plain XX / with load out of XXXX / SE runway / 50% Fuel
I have noticed this doesn't always work... Someones in the air.. in a 5" in the heat of a battle (guilty), etc.. but we should try. Let all on know, "IN 10 MIN. - SQUAD FLIGHT! GET YOUR ASS DOWN!" This will give everyone time to finish a long sortie.. or maybe even up for a short sortie before hand.

I think we all agree.. Flying together is much more fun.

Speaking of flying together..
I have noticed this happening more, and I would like to help the trend keep going and improve.
If your down, or just logging on, call out on vox, "anyone down and want to wing up?"
If we can up with wing men or in small groups rather than a string of individual flights. If you have to wait a min. or 2... you wait. Remeber, Safety in Numbers. Like I said, I have noticed more than in the past, when someone logs on... "Where you guys at?" called out much more.

I said I was only going to chime in a little.... so I'll shut up now.
I like what I'm seeing and hope to continue improving on what we are doing together.

zack1234 wrote:

I agree with vou and Yarbles they have raised ie getting killed for no advantage. Missions are not a big issue it might be a better scene not having missions just meet at a base as a squad and shoot the enemy.

I hope i did not give the impression i am happy with mission situation flying with squad members is more important and happens on a regular basis any way.

There is a point Klingan made the after the sqaud meet.

Where did everyone go?

One last point can people understand me when i speak?

most of the time!!

yarbles has a point, we all did (or vast majority) get recruited thru floats' public missions.. so even though they are not my thing, i suppose they still have a place.

another thing we may be missing.. is on these big maps, theres so much shit to defend, its harder to get everyone together. i.e. "lets go take 44", "cant right now, they about to capture 212", "oh and 105 is in shit trouble also" etc. etc.


seems we are much more cohesive on small maps.

Saffron wrote:

Alright.. I'll chime in a little.....

On the better side... If we can draw in some of the more experienced players, 68's, DM's, etc.. It will increase our chances of obtaining our goal.

I think we all agree.. Flying together is much more fun.

I liked allot of what you said here and thoroughly agree.

I quoted the above because I am not sure what our goal is. Sure its to have fun but that includes things like getting satisfaction from developing others. The best fun I had yesterday was when me Zak, reiner and 83 were trying to take a base form a carrier with a load of othere knights. I enjoyed it becuase we and the other knights were working very much as a team. People made sugestions and others picked up on them so we got Ord, Vh, Fighter hangers down using planes and the ship guns. It was intense and I felt totally immersed. I cared about the outcome and when we didnt achive it because they got the carrier.

It was dissapointing we didnt get the base but afterwards it didnt matter and I didnt blame anyone becuase we all worked well together. It was exciting not furstrating becuase we were working well together and the majority of those involved were not in our squad but often they followed our lead because we had ideas and put them into practice. My experience is we can provide leadership and direcrion to the knights sometimes through inter squad, public missions and just generally by making suggestions like we need to do this and destroy that on the area channel. If they see us doing it sometimes they will join in but we need to communicate with them in my opinion anyway.

I would rather work together well as a team and not take a well defended base than fly around on my own moaning about how crap everyone else is. I know we all do it

[quote="kvuo75"]

zack1234 wrote:

another thing we may be missing.. is on these big maps, theres so much shit to defend, its harder to get everyone together. i.e. "lets go take 44", "cant right now, they about to capture 212", "oh and 105 is in shit trouble also" etc. etc.


seems we are much more cohesive on small maps.

Perhaps we should malways try and gravitate toward the smaller map

Yarbles wrote:

Perhaps we should malways try and gravitate toward the smaller map

we do.... but there wont be a small map in a LW arena until at least wednesday.

Stupid large maps